To he who speaks of sending, once again, the army to Sicily, as in the times of the operation “Vespri Siciliani”, the National Anti-mafia Attorney, Piero Grasso, replies that he prefers “an army made up of merchants, businesses and associations of the civil society, committed to the fight against the mafia…”
In this way, with few words, with his customary frankness, Attorney Grasso summarized one of the central points of what is defined as the necessary “cultural revolution against the mafia”…also spoken of in the book published by Feltrinelli, “Pizzini, veleni and cicoria” (little notes, poisons and chicory) which contains a conversation of the Judge with the correspondent of the newspaper, La Stampa, Francesco La Licata. In the book, Grasso and La Licata tackle not only the central themes of the fight against Cosa Nostra, but also – extensively – certain uncomfortable questions tied to the relations between the State, politics, the economic system and the mafias, without neglecting reflections on problems, in certain cases real and serious maladies, which afflict the front to which the criminality is in contrast, the anti-mafia, often lacerated by suspicions, poison and divisions.
The reconstruction by Attorney Grasso with the journalist, La Licata has the merit of openly discussing questions which are often eluded or treated – regarding not only the Cosa Nostra, but also other Italian and foreign criminal organizations – with worn-out stereotypes or banalities, in some cases also with the aid of slogans.
A straightforward reflection which is to be considered even more useful when, at little more than two months from the publication of the book, there arrive at Duisburg, in Germany, appalling confirmations of the arrogance, power and capacity of infiltration by the mafioso organizations – in this case, the ‘ndrangheta, not only in regions outside of the original one in our Country, but also abroad. A useful reflection indeed, that of the Attorney, when we see the unrelenting spill of dead from the infinite camorra wars in the province of Napoli….., when the collectors of protection money surge back onto the scene, on a vast scale in the different Sicilian provinces, and the ‘cosche’ (organized bands of Sicilian Mafioso) return to threaten and carry out intimidatory actions against journalists like Lirio Abate.
Therefore, it emerges very clearly the need for immediate and urgent answers to two basic questions, tied, not only, to the proof of a continuing blooming state of health of the criminal organizations.
In the first place: is it still possible to win the war against a power system which seems extremely difficult to smash? A system which, although hit, seems to be able to reproduce itself to infinity, commencing from the basic essential components: from the army of affiliates to the vast theatre formed from the closest net of solidarity, that of kinship: to the supporters, to the network of subjugated and utilized micro-criminality, and on to the area of the so-called ‘external competition’, made up of merchants, businessmen, professionals, public officials, technicians, politicians…., relations constructed on acquaintance, complex ties, but also on a market of information and favours which intervene to win a competition, such as tendering for a contract, to steer the consensus, to obtain votes….
And furthermore: with what arms does one fight a war in which it seems, (or at least this is the distinct impression of public opinion) that only investigators and judges are engaged in the front line? It is a fact that after the massacres of ’92 and ’93, the tension, passion and civil participation in the fight against the criminal phenomena steadily decreased, while slowly, one after the other, there followed proposals and legislative choices which although not regarding, but rather, excluding mafia crimes, in fact, in their application blunted the weapons and investigations for use against criminal organizations…from the substantial decriminalization for abuse of authority, which makes it impossible for the investigations to really hit or neutralize the infiltrations into local authorities, to the modifications to the Code of Criminal Procedure – from the limitations on interceptions, to the reform of the Law on ‘turning state’s evidence’, which discourages collaboration…. up to the ‘pardon’, centre of a thousand polemics over the advantages which also those who were not exactly small-time criminals would obtain. Not to speak of the inadequacy of certain normative instruments. It is sufficient to cite the muddled functioning of the legal normative for kidnapping, the confiscation and reutilization of Mafioso patrimonies. Put all together, the steps taken in this direction over the last 13 years present a distressing picture. Who spoke of “normalization”?
Therefore, it is useful to approach these themes with the actual Head of the National Anti-mafia. A judge who, when he took on the role of Prosecuting Attorney or when he directed the work of the office of the Attorney of the Republic, he always obeyed the rule of bringing the accused into the courtroom only when there was sufficient proof to sustain the accusation. A man who, in 40 years of activity, in response to his own conscience, always found the strength to fight the mafia organizations…. and continued not to give up even when the State no longer considered the fight against the mafia of top priority, also when friends and colleagues died and he found himself alone…
The meeting with Attorney Grasso takes place in his office at the National Anti-mafia headquarters, in the building that was once the New Prison, the ancient papal prison of Via Giulia: a road where Pope Giulio II assembled all the judicial courts and where Pope Innocenzo X, in 1652, constructed the new prison … with the intent that it should be more humane than those seen in Rome up to that time… naturally, more human for those times. The prison remained in function for almost 250 years, until the construction of Regina Coeli, on the other bank of the Tiber. Notwithstanding the modifications, the architecture of the inside is that of the prisons of the times, remaining the same for, at least, two more centuries…. And so the headquarters of the National Anti-mafia Direction look bare… a little grim, but when we pass into the Attorney’s office, bright, high frescoed ceilings, great paintings on religious themes, it does not seem to have been designed by the architect of the New Prison, like the rest of the building - that is, where sins were atoned for… or confessed. On furniture around the desk of the Attorney stand memories of his years of activity; photographs, an elegant collection of small statues…. policemen, judges... Many are the letters and papers on which the Attorney must work – constantly in movement between the district attorneys’ offices, abroad, lecturing on the law in schools and universities. Attorney Grasso does not tire of moving from one place to another… speaking to the young, just as he does not tire of being nailed to his desk to write that “Treccani di Cosa Nostra”, which is the sentence of the first maxi-trial of the mafia, the point at which our conversation starts, with a significant and instructive anecdote …

It happened one day, on the very day I was writing sentences of the maxi trial and while I was writing the police record of one of the mafiosi, a subject condemned to 8 years imprisonment, I find him in front of me... in a shop .. this person, whom I did not recognize immediately, stops me and says that I was unjust with him, and that other judges had granted him provisional release. This provoked a reaction in me … a shock, which, however, I overcame. In moments like these, one goes mad or throws in the towel …. or one says to oneself, “well, I have a clean conscience”. For me, it triggered this reaction. I said to myself … that everything I had done, I had done in obedience to my conscience … I evaluated it in relation to my conscience … then if outside factors intervene which don’t allow you to reach results, too bad, I’ll continue along my road, with my task, for the things in which I believe, with my will-power and enthusiasm, as always…
One must overcome the moments of discouragement because in the fight against the mafia the commitment is continuous – one cannot have the highs and lows to which we have been accustomed. You see, I have always seen the fight against the mafia as a diagram in which there are the peaks and the swamps: that is to say, when the commitment diminishes … goes down, not only of the State, of the civil society in general, but of all that combination of elements which go to serve the fight against the mafia. Often, it’s an emergency that provokes reaction, in general, a very vigorous collective emotion, which pushes all the forces, the judiciary, the police, the politicians to deeply commitment themselves … then, however, this commitment inevitably dwindles, while, on the contrary, it is necessary to make it become a constant every-day procedure …
Then, there is another consideration to make: if you look at it closely, it seems, strangely enough, that there is some sort of non-belligerent pact with the mafia, … a pact that breaks, but it has never been broken on the initiative of the State. Historically, it has been broken for some shocking action committed by the mafia: examples are many, from the Ciacullli massacre in ’64, to the one of Viale Lazio in ’69, to the period of the homicides of noted public figures, from ’79 to ’84, such as Dalla Chiesa, Giuliano a La Torre, Chinnici, Mattarella, Attorney Costa … and still others, and then the Falcone and Borsellino massacres. These were the emergency points of the fight against the mafia.
Lastly, … after the repression, there was the Provenzano strategy, the decision of the Cosa Nostra to lower its profile and try to attain a certain invisibility to recover and work at the re-organization of Cosa Nostra … In that case we reacted to the attempt of throwing a blanket over the phenomenon and there were successes which led to the capture of Provenzano.

I have passed from the trenches of Palermo, where I looked into the eyes of the enemy, I heard the mafiosi voices on the tapped interceptions, at the National Anti-mafia Attorney’s office, which is a sort of General Command, where you have a wider, more global view of the phenomena, not only of Cosa Nostra, but also the of the ‘ndrangheta, the Sacra Corona Unit, the camorra … from this privileged observatory you must go and verify what is needed in the fight against the mafia, examine the means that are necessary, try to coordinate the forces on the field.
And then, any investigation is the fruit of a collection of clues, elements which you are able to find not only in the local ambit, because the criminal organizations move on the national territory – and, therefore, you can no longer think of an investigation which is only local - one finds elements at Palermo as at Milan or in other places. You must carry out extremely difficult work. Often it means avoiding overlaps … two different organisms can move on investigative courses which could meet and maybe, hinder each other. Therefore, there is the need of someone that says who, how and when one must move, someone who regulates the activities …
There are forces on the field, very often praiseworthy, above all in the South, where the conditions are really terrible and … however, the forces are not sufficient … speaking in terms of means and men.
One cannot put a tail on someone and, at a certain moment, interrupt it because the overtime hours which can be paid are finished, or because the benzene of the car that is following the fugitive has run out. An action against the mafia which is carried out intermittently, due to lack of resources, is unthinkable.
The resources for the Interior, for the Law must be adequate to the phenomenon that they must face. In Italy, I realize there are many priorities, but from my point of view, the fight against organized crime, the maintaining of security, continue to be priority. But not only in the South: it is a national problem because there is no doubt the security, in general, is an essential for the citizens. And then there is a problem of rules which must be adapted to the evolution of the phenomena, to the criminal dynamics. Think of the relations between various types of criminality and between the local and foreign criminality … all this imposes the necessity of keeping abreast with what is happening …

The instruments to combat organized crime we have very well identified. First and foremost, two instruments: the telephone tapping interceptions; in particular, those of the ambient, which, with the identification of the right place to plant the bugs, allows us knowledge from the inside, of the criminal aggregations, their projects, their activities and actions, and the police co-operators.
It is a fund of precious know-how which, one can say, we export throughout the world. We must try not to lose it. It is necessary … we must make sure that the powers regarding interception on the side of organized crime are not taken from us.
At the moment there is a law under discussion in the Camera on this matter, and I believe we shall make it. Regarding the item of police co-operators, a diminution not so much in quantity as in quality is found.
This is to say that there are still co-operators, but there is a lack of those co-operators who with their statements are able to dismantle an organization, those individuals who, for the fact they were in the top ranks of the mafia, know so many of those criminal episodes, so many of those individuals, to be able to give a considerable contribution.
The last high-ranking co-operators … of quality, go back a long way. Why does this happen?
It is not so much a problem connected to the anti-mafia legislation, where there are certainly things to change and correct, as how the standard judicial system is changing.
I am a guarantista (a person who supports the system of guarantees). There are the guarantees that serve to avoid judicial errors, but there are also the norms which, in reality, have influence only on the effectiveness of the punishment and on the times of the justice, with that which naturally follows.
But, above all, there are benefits which have produced possibilities of reduction of sentences. The practice, in brief, allows a first reduction, then the plea bargaining enlarged in appeal is another of those opportunities which further decreases the sentence … and it is possible to apply it to crimes typical of the mafioso organizations. We have had examples of major drug traffickers who would have had to serve up to sentences of 24 to 30 years imprisonment, and in the end, instead, their sentences were reduced to 8 years. Then with good conduct in prison, the advanced release, the real sentences to serve are further reduced. They end up by being minimum punishments, less than those given to police co-operators, who must, in any event serve a quarter of the sentence in prison and, what is more, must consign all their assets, without any distinction made between goods and property obtained through illegal means and inheritances.
Analysing this phenomenon one could almost say that a good lawyer is more important than the measures provided for by the anti-mafia law or by the police cooperation.
Therefore, incentives are needed to restart the co-operation mechanism, above all, from the higher ranking figures of organized crime, and then the defence of investigation spaces, the collection of evidence acquired through environmental tapping interceptions should be firmly maintained.

Well, Cosa Nostra tries to obtain consensus, often through the services which it gives to the community of the territories it controls or aims to control: for example, also through the recovery of things that have been stolen. I must mention that murders have been committed in order to force the receivers of stolen goods to keep, for a determinate period of time, the stolen goods he has received, so as to allow its recovery … and, therefore, guarantee a service. Something which also has to do with the systems that the mafia organizations use to convince entrepreneurs, storekeepers etc., that the ‘pizzo’ (protection money) is no more than insurance against risks, risks of damage, which is, of course, the damage made by the same criminal organizations … through these mechanisms a relation with the social fabric is created … and it is that which happens also with the drugs, when a connection is created, even with subjects who act at institutional levels, owing to their addiction. Naturally, all this comes about through the level of the peddling of the drugs. Through this intermediate level, professionals, for example, who need the drug pusher, are tied, and are able to be blackmailed because their reputations cannot be blemished …
In the criminal projects, the traffic of drugs is the priority because of the capacity it has, with respect to capital and profit production. I would also mention that the drug is produced, as are many commodities, in a specific place and consumed in many different places: in different States: this makes it a trans-national crime. And, therefore, international
co-operation is important. I would say it is crucial.
It is necessary to have homogenous regulations, homogenous procedures, it is necessary that the Police and the Judiciary of the various States act in harmony. The National Anti-mafia dedicates an important part of its activity to guarantee these very connections, to create common procedures … and I must say that on this ground there have been various successes, not only on the front of the fight against drug trafficking, but also in the area of the trade in human beings. We have experimented joint operations with concomitant arrests in Europe and Latin America …
and there is, however, a long way to go, which also the facts of Duisburg tell us … we have always emphasized in many places the problem posed by an organized crime that is able to move itself, with great rapidity, in countries where there is no response to offences of organized crime, where mafia crimes are often not seen as dangerous … including countries in which a kidnapping, a murder or a massacre triggers an immediate mechanism of reaction, which, on the contrary, is not triggered when extensive drug trafficking or money laundering is spoken of – extremely dangerous crimes, but which have no impact because they are invisible.
In those places, it is important to have investigators who have the capacity of interpreting these phenomena, understand the reasons, the way in which these crimes manifest themselves and, therefore, intervene …

I am often reminded of an interception made on the very day of the fall of the Berlin Wall. A mafioso was telling his interlocutor, who was in Germany, “Go to East Berlin”. When he was asked why, the Mafioso replied, “The Berlin Wall has fallen”. “And what should I do about it?” said the interlocutor. Exasperated, the Mafioso replied, “you must buy everything, everything, everything! Buy bars, discoes, pizza bars, everything, everything, everything!”.
The same day as the fall of The Berlin Wall, those mafioso had the capacity to foresee the new markets that would be opening, new possibilities of investment and profit … these investments, in many countries, are not seen as a danger, on the contrary, they are often interpreted as positive facts, as opportunities … percunia non olet, money has no odor, everything makes the economy go round, and this money, besides, costs nothing, but has the advantage of producing an enormous power … which, however, risks influencing, above all, the most fragile democracies. It does not produce development, but only pollution of the economy … I remember when I was in Palermo, I ran up against recycling operations which led to San Domingo. At the time I wrote a letter to a bank, asking for information to understand and indicate, connotations, nature of the protagonists of the operations. The bank replied after six months, asking me information which I did not have and which was, in fact, the same information that I had asked them … an example of lack of co-operation.
I want to say that as long as the international community tolerates fiscal paradises able to launder dirty or grey capital – I mean also that which comes from bribes, corruption, foreign operations – it will be difficult, if not impossible, to follow the tracks of the recycling of criminal capital.
The traces of dirty money are lost in this way. And, besides, whoever wishes to hide that money is ready to pay enormous sums. Then, if I look at the statistics of the trials for money laundering in Italy, I find very disappointing answers … there are 4 or 5 trials in all, in the face of incalculable wealth …
At Palermo – but it is only an example we have done much with seizing, confiscation … but that wealth is only a minimal part of what is produced by the mafias …

We have asked to have more instruments with respect to those we use in the activities and coordination which we carry out today. It is necessary to have means to realize more concrete coordination, to have the possibility to intervene directly in certain crimes, for example, the trans-national ones, with the coordination between activities of the Italian authorities and foreign authorities. For example, a provision should be proposed which allows a judge of the National Anti-mafia Direction into the common investigative squads so as to be able to better organize the work and to coordinate the efforts. We have asked to have the possibility of proposing proprietary measures against the mafia organizations.
An instrument of this kind would reinforce anti-mafia action, if it’s true that many Public Prosecutor offices do not have the means to follow these aspects because they must employ those they have on strictly criminal matters, when instead, the possibility emerges of striking also economic interests of subjects and organizations. We have always been available to concern ourselves with this sector, which we consider extremely important.
I remember a mafioso, who then became a police co-operator, Gaspare Mutolo, saying that the members of Cosa Nostra can put up with prison, but what they cannot bear is the fact that someone could put his hands in their pockets … and it is the truth because criminal exponents who finish up in prison can also be substituted, but years are necessary to reconstruct assets which are seized and then confiscated.
Then we have asked to be able to intervene on another side. We have collected significant elements of connection between terrorist organizations and organized crime. It is sufficient to ponder the fact that many terrorist organizations finance themselves with the traffic of drugs. There are international agencies that produce forged documents, which help in the recycling of money, and not only these aspects. All this should serve as an inducement to aim at a coordination of the investigations on terrorism and on its connections with organized crime.
We have asked to be able to do this and, besides, in a way of saying , at ‘knock-down’ prices, perhaps with only a few more judges, and an Assistant Attorney to manage this specific sector. We also have a data-bank already ready, which functions …
I understand they are all in agreement, but then it become always more difficult to pass from intentions to facts …

In January of 2006, when the Law had given the parties the possibility of making lists, in a way of saying, more rigid, when the margins of candidate choice became so limited and the citizen was forced to vote, perhaps, for undesirable people, I made a consideration, more than an appeal: I said that it was the occasion, a unique occasion for the parties to strike off the lists, not people suspected generically, but those who had received convictions, who were under investigation … and I reminded that if there was a criminal responsibility, then there was also a political responsibility. It was not an attempt to let the list be decided by the judiciary … I am convinced that the primacy of politics should be recognized.
Today, however, there is a detachment of the citizens from politics, the people understand little of what is happening, they observe continuous clashes, and do not feel well represented ... however, I believe that this relation can be recovered …but my appeal, my considerations, fell on deaf ears. Then, the message got around that the judiciary in doing its work could also have committed errors – the meaning was, however, that the judiciary could condemn or acquit, investigate … do what it wants … but political circles could care less. And the message, believe me, is really terrifying.

I dedicate much of my free time from work to this kind of contact, because if it is true that the mafia is also in search of approval, it is necessary to act preventively on those to whom this search for consensus is addressed, because for those the mafia is synonymous with power, money and wealth: it is the myth of our time, however, mistakenly so … because, in reality, as we explain to the young, the mafia is mourning, blood and prison – in the end it doesn’t pay.
This is the message that the young must receive. However, I also note the problem often put to me by the young, chiefly by those in their last year, who are about to leave school and have decided not to go to university and, consequently, finished being students, become unemployed … They say: “Now I have this fund of knowledge on lawfulness, but who’s going to solve my problem, who’s going to help me find a job, who do I go to, what must I do”?
I always reply that it is necessary to give everyone the same opportunities, eliminating favouritism, then each person must win a place in the society on the basis of their own capabilities.
A very difficult point of discussion, so much more difficult where the unemployment is very high, so high that it is often not easy to imagine the extent, because the facts are watered down by the national data.
Our young intelligence is forced to go away, towards the centre North Italy, or abroad, where, perhaps, that preparation in legality is not even needed … a preparation which, tirelessly, was inculcated by the teachers and schools in an exceptional way. And who remain? Most often, those who adapt to the system. And as long as it remains so, it will be difficult to change the system, because to change it a new executive class is necessary, the isolation of the mafia phenomenon and the favouritism mechanism is necessary, recourse to intermediation to obtain respect for individual rights is necessary … a real cultural revolution is necessary. This is why I dedicate all the time I can to the young, to speak of legality ….